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on this episode of skeptic oh when you

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know the science of near-death

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experience and you know there's a

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reality to it I think it helps you make

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decisions about your life and say okay I

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need to bring that in now I need to

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incorporate that into my belief system I

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need to live that because that's a truth

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consciousness in some way I understand

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survives bodily death now i have to take

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action to my life and I have to live

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that I'm going to emphasize something

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else that I said that goes to my you

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know my legal training is that when you

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give a legal argument you can't say

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anything unless you cite in authority

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and I think that there is a cross over

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here to what we're talking about in the

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scientific world and I think near-death

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experiences and parapsychology of the

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Dean Radin type are perfect examples

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where we are seeing phenomena with

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citations to Authority with evidence

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that shows these things are real and we

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need to wake up and appreciate the

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reality these things not so not just

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because maybe we were wrong or science

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is wrong but to me it opens up a broader

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welcome to skeptic oh will react Splore

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controversial science with leading

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researchers thinkers and their critics

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i'm your host Alex Karras and on this

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episode of skeptic Oh kind of a special

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mirrored interview where this show is

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being broadcast through my feet on

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skeptic oh and also through the feet of

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our guest who also happens to be a

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podcaster and an author and someone who

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was recommended to me by you skeptical

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listeners so our guest is Phillip Camela

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his book is the collapse of materialism

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and during this dialogue we talk about a

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whole variety of issues that you're

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probably are going to be familiar with

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if you're at all familiar with this show

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we of course talk about the collapse of

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materialism and whether materialism

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really works despite all its limitations

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whether it in some way works for us in a

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way that we don't fully appreciate we

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also talked a little bit about atheism

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and and what the atheists really do

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bring to the table in this discussion we

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also talked a little bit about

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conspiracies and finally we talked about

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near-death experience science and about

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how all this information regarding

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extended consciousness can truly be

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transformational it was a very

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interesting fun easy dialogue between

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the two of us I hope you enjoy my

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interview with Phillip Camela

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okay that's great I'm going to jump

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right into it today we're joined by very

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interesting guests and this show is

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going to be a little bit different from

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a lot of the other shows we do it's kind

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of a joint mirrored podcast so we're

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joined by Philip Camela an lawyer turned

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podcaster turned author who's written a

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fascinating book the collapse of

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materialism visions of science dreams of

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God he's also the host of a very well

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done podcast titled conversations beyond

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science and religion it's on web talk

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radio he has really terrific guests on

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there that he's been able to land and he

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covers I think a lot of the topics that

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are will be very familiar too skeptical

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listeners he does them in a very

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intelligent way probing and constantly

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kind of expanding and pushing the

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boundaries of this consciousness

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reimagined once we get past this dorky

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materialism that we both kind of rail

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against so much so with that it's a

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great pleasure to welcome you fill up to

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skeptic oh thanks so much for joining me

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well thanks a lot and to return the

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favor again this is Philip Camela this

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is conversations beyond science and

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religion and with regard to Alex those

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of you probably know a lot of him on my

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show for the last seven years he's done

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his podcast skeptical science at the

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tipping point and it really is a leading

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show in this area and I and I think a

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lot of us view alex's being a

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trailblazer his interview to start

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studded cast of original thinkers hard

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no scientist mediums near-death

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researchers parapsychologists and

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everything in between I like his uh like

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your adage there about the goal is to

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find the truth follow the data wherever

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it leads and that's something that is

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close to my heart because I think that

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that is really what this is all about

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now alex has a new book that I've read

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it's really a great read it's called

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science is wrong about almost everything

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and in this book he assembles excerpt

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from a wide range of interviews that

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he's done spliced with his own

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observations to show that perhaps the

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end days of science as we know it are

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near so Alex thanks a lot for for

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putting this together i'm looking

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forward to it and since I'm the last

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person talking here I'm going to ask you

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first of all what drove you down this

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path to get involved in this whole

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scientific challenge that you that that

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you do both in your book and on your

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show what was your inspiration well you

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know Phillip it's kind of interesting

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because now I've listened to a couple of

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your interviews and I think you touch on

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an aspect of this that I don't talk

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about as much but you talk about having

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a lifelong kind of interest in some of

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these topics and you know I never quite

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see it that way but I'm really going to

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be honest I think I've always felt like

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I thought a little bit differently you

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know and I tried to conform and I tried

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to do the and you must be able to relate

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to this I mean you went through law

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school became a lawyer I went through

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business school got an MBA got a good

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job try to do everything everyone was

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talking about but in the meantime I

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always in the back of my mind had this

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yeah but what else isn't there's got to

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be something more and I was interested

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in these deeper questions I saw them as

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both spiritual questions but also as

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scientific questions because I at a very

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I don't know early agent because I'm

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older now but in my early 20s I I kind

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of put aside the traditional religious

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Christian upbringing that I had and said

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you know that just doesn't really make

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much sense but I still had this gnawing

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feeling that there was something behind

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that religion there was a kernel of

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truth there that I wanted to investigate

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but I want to investigate it

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scientifically so when I got the

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opportunity I felt like these questions

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were questions that I had mold over for

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a long time but I want to kind of throw

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that back at you and because I think

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that in in reading your book listening

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to your show one of the things I felt a

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real

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camaraderie with and I guess a symbolic

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Oh was this idea that you're somebody

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who's very grounded in the real world I

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mean you understand how the real world

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works you understand how people work and

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even that I think is a good background

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to understanding how science works to

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Sciences in some ways its own duck out

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there versus you know the law which I

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think in the you know intersects with

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with real people doing real stuff what

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are you thoughts about that yeah I mean

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I i think that uh that you have to keep

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your feet on the ground I think that's

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the purpose of having a ground and feet

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to begin with I think it's easy to get

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lost in the Eyrie topics in this field

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to get to abstract and to forget that

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the end of the day we have lives the

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lead and i think that the challenge is

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translating these high sounding

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principles into our daily lives and

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ultimately it to me it comes down to

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morality it comes down to incorporating

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this quote-unquote spirituality this

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this this this unified essence that's

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inside of us and and and exerting that

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outward to fulfill this moral promise

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and and frankly i think that that's one

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of my problems with materialism is that

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when you read the leaders they're

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basically you know they basically say

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and there's a quote my book lon its

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lines that science has no moral lessons

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to convey I mean I think that that is

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really a sad commentary and you know I

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tell people that a lot of my inspiration

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is negative I mean I remember you know

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in preparing for the show I remember the

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book the naked ape and I have you ever

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read that book but it had had that that

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sort of fascinated cover with the naked

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guy on it but let that well I had a

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reaction against that book to my in my

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own mind at a young age I knew we were

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more than naked apes and so and so it

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serve this fight to prove that this

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feeling we have inside that's that's

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telling us that we're

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or the naked days were more than then

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descended from the amoeba that that week

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that there's more potential we have that

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this is something that's never left me

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and and so but at the same time we have

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lives to lead and I think that this is

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something Alex that needs to happen in

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order to carry this forward you know to

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the field to bring it out there we have

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to convince people that this is real

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that but we're not just you know

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pontificating well but but I don't know

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you know I'm challenged by that too

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because one of the things I've really

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tried to do and I've been doing it even

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more so in the last month or two is

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really reaching out to the Atheist

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community skeptical community the

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science as we know it types the people

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were pushing against mainly in this

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struggle and I have to say every time I

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do I come away with a mixed feeling on

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one hand I get a better sense for what

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they're really up against I mean let's

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get real we still live in a world that

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is on one hand bound to some rather

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wacky religious ideas and we can kind of

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you know maneuver our way around them

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and say well the morality issue don't

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they kind of have that figured out

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better than the the atheists do and they

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don't they have the charity and the love

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part of it figured out better than the

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other ones do and that better than the

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atheists do and I would have to say they

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do and I would have to say that in terms

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of the the spark of God if you will that

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maybe rest at the core of all this that

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we can't really put into terms and I

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know as soon as I throw out the word God

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there it's going to turn off a lot of

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people but you can substitute anything

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you want a light intelligence source

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whatever you want but I'm getting

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sidetracked because my point is the ills

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of religiosity of Orthodoxy really can't

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be easily dismissed or diminish too much

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and I think we have a tendency to

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sometimes do that and to pretend like

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everything is okay if we can just get

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rid of those dang

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ski atheist hey those atheists are kind

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of pushing some important points forward

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yeah I think that you make I think you

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make a good point but I think that what

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we have in my view of this is that we

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have a dichotomy we have which is which

273
00:12:13,460 --> 00:12:09,420
is between what i would call Orthodox

274
00:12:16,100 --> 00:12:13,470
religion or say creationism and material

275
00:12:18,379 --> 00:12:16,110
science as if those are the only two

276
00:12:20,509 --> 00:12:18,389
choices you know you can only be a

277
00:12:23,389 --> 00:12:20,519
Republican or a Democrat you can't be an

278
00:12:26,929 --> 00:12:23,399
independent or libertarian it's like a

279
00:12:31,369 --> 00:12:26,939
to answer multiple-choice tests and too

280
00:12:34,609 --> 00:12:31,379
often I think that the the two sides get

281
00:12:36,530 --> 00:12:34,619
polarized and one becomes a reaction

282
00:12:39,590 --> 00:12:36,540
against the other I know I know in your

283
00:12:41,689 --> 00:12:39,600
own book you make a really good point

284
00:12:43,939 --> 00:12:41,699
that I'm quoting here it says part of

285
00:12:45,889 --> 00:12:43,949
the reason atheists are such sloppy

286
00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:45,899
thinkers when it comes to big pitcher

287
00:12:50,689 --> 00:12:48,569
science is they've wasted much of their

288
00:12:53,419 --> 00:12:50,699
intellectual muscle debunking

289
00:12:56,119 --> 00:12:53,429
Christianity and I think that this is

290
00:12:58,669 --> 00:12:56,129
this is a very I think that was a very

291
00:13:01,669 --> 00:12:58,679
good point i completely agree with it at

292
00:13:04,369 --> 00:13:01,679
the we should be looking for common

293
00:13:07,249 --> 00:13:04,379
ground though I do think Orthodox

294
00:13:10,100 --> 00:13:07,259
religion is a problem and I also think

295
00:13:11,659 --> 00:13:10,110
Orthodox science is a problem the only

296
00:13:14,210 --> 00:13:11,669
way we're going to improve things is we

297
00:13:16,489 --> 00:13:14,220
need to move beyond both and find the

298
00:13:18,650 --> 00:13:16,499
common ground and find something where

299
00:13:20,539 --> 00:13:18,660
we could agree upon and that's why I'm

300
00:13:23,359 --> 00:13:20,549
an advocate of taking it all down and

301
00:13:26,629 --> 00:13:23,369
building it up you know all over again

302
00:13:29,059 --> 00:13:26,639
and that's an interesting thought and

303
00:13:30,739 --> 00:13:29,069
you know one question I guess I had for

304
00:13:33,259 --> 00:13:30,749
you and since you just said about

305
00:13:35,780 --> 00:13:33,269
tearing everything down which fits in

306
00:13:38,210 --> 00:13:35,790
perfectly with the title of your book

307
00:13:40,189 --> 00:13:38,220
which is once again folks you want to

308
00:13:42,590 --> 00:13:40,199
check this out it's on amazon's gotten

309
00:13:45,829 --> 00:13:42,600
some fantastic reviews some great blurbs

310
00:13:47,929 --> 00:13:45,839
by some really really intelligent people

311
00:13:50,210 --> 00:13:47,939
including larry dossey and a couple

312
00:13:53,210 --> 00:13:50,220
other folks the collapse of materialism

313
00:13:54,769 --> 00:13:53,220
visions of science dreams of God so you

314
00:13:58,429 --> 00:13:54,779
just talk Phillip about tearing

315
00:14:01,579 --> 00:13:58,439
everything down as a lawyer Philip how

316
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:01,589
would you make the case for the collapse

317
00:14:06,889 --> 00:14:04,410
of materialism as that being some

318
00:14:09,470 --> 00:14:06,899
that we could really foresee in the

319
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:09,480
future how does materialism really

320
00:14:15,079 --> 00:14:11,610
collapse isn't it aren't we totally a

321
00:14:17,930 --> 00:14:15,089
meshed in materialism materialistic

322
00:14:20,689 --> 00:14:17,940
thinking both in a scientific level but

323
00:14:23,300 --> 00:14:20,699
also on a very personal level can we

324
00:14:28,730 --> 00:14:23,310
really extricate ourselves from this

325
00:14:31,490 --> 00:14:28,740
idea I think that the the movement out

326
00:14:34,569 --> 00:14:31,500
of the teary ilysm is ultimately a

327
00:14:37,090 --> 00:14:34,579
natural movement of consciousness is

328
00:14:40,819 --> 00:14:37,100
ultimately an evolution of consciousness

329
00:14:43,790 --> 00:14:40,829
one of the heirs that materialism makes

330
00:14:47,900 --> 00:14:43,800
us believe in is that evolution only

331
00:14:49,819 --> 00:14:47,910
only occurs in the for the organism for

332
00:14:52,999 --> 00:14:49,829
the material thing you know there's

333
00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:53,009
plenty of thinkers pier delle Jardine

334
00:14:59,210 --> 00:14:56,850
and sri aurobindo and others who talked

335
00:15:01,730 --> 00:14:59,220
about the evolution of consciousness I

336
00:15:05,929 --> 00:15:01,740
think that what we are experiencing now

337
00:15:08,620 --> 00:15:05,939
and for the past 20 or 30 years is we're

338
00:15:11,449 --> 00:15:08,630
seeing consciousness evolve

339
00:15:15,559 --> 00:15:11,459
consciousness starting to understand

340
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:15,569
that we are a meshed into the world and

341
00:15:22,009 --> 00:15:19,680
so to me it's not it's not just coming

342
00:15:24,170 --> 00:15:22,019
up with the with a great argument and

343
00:15:27,079 --> 00:15:24,180
and and pounding somebody on the head

344
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:27,089
with all these logical points that's

345
00:15:32,590 --> 00:15:30,930
part of it but but ultimately it's going

346
00:15:36,110 --> 00:15:32,600
to be a to me it's gonna be a natural

347
00:15:39,170 --> 00:15:36,120
movement it this is going to feel closer

348
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:39,180
to us as we move closer to the world

349
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:41,850
realize that we are really part of

350
00:15:47,090 --> 00:15:44,639
nature and that it's not separate from

351
00:15:50,689 --> 00:15:47,100
us but ability that's getting too

352
00:15:52,850 --> 00:15:50,699
touchy-feely for me to new agey I mean

353
00:15:55,460 --> 00:15:52,860
bring it down to for me as an attorney

354
00:15:58,129 --> 00:15:55,470
show me the show me the evidence because

355
00:16:02,809 --> 00:15:58,139
again I one of the fastest growing

356
00:16:05,329 --> 00:16:02,819
groups in the spiritual realm if you

357
00:16:08,990 --> 00:16:05,339
will if that if as we divide that up or

358
00:16:14,090 --> 00:16:09,000
atheists are atheists are non-believers

359
00:16:16,129 --> 00:16:14,100
are folks who are have turned their back

360
00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:16,139
on religion those folks aren't coming

361
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:18,310
around anyway soon anytime soon

362
00:16:25,230 --> 00:16:20,610
and you know I talked a lot of prominent

363
00:16:27,150 --> 00:16:25,240
scientists who have seemed to have no no

364
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:27,160
inclination to move away from

365
00:16:31,769 --> 00:16:30,010
materialism or if they do more

366
00:16:34,380 --> 00:16:31,779
importantly when they do they have a

367
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:34,390
million little fallback positions that

368
00:16:38,970 --> 00:16:36,970
are that are really just restating the

369
00:16:40,350 --> 00:16:38,980
same you know it's like in consciousness

370
00:16:42,060 --> 00:16:40,360
research which I've probably

371
00:16:44,310 --> 00:16:42,070
investigated more than anything else you

372
00:16:47,460 --> 00:16:44,320
know so yeah you pin them down and you

373
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:47,470
say is consciousness and epiphone amin

374
00:16:51,450 --> 00:16:49,330
of the brain is it just a prop of the

375
00:16:52,769 --> 00:16:51,460
brain and if you wrestle them to the

376
00:16:56,030 --> 00:16:52,779
ground enough you can get them to say oh

377
00:16:58,410 --> 00:16:56,040
okay maybe it's not oh it's a it's a

378
00:17:00,300 --> 00:16:58,420
emergent property of the brain you know

379
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:00,310
so that's their fallback position which

380
00:17:05,699 --> 00:17:03,010
is really a non-starter it's the same

381
00:17:08,460 --> 00:17:05,709
but it's kind of stated in a different

382
00:17:10,679 --> 00:17:08,470
way it's all I just did a just

383
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:10,689
publishing a show with New York Times

384
00:17:18,569 --> 00:17:15,610
bestselling author and meditator sam

385
00:17:20,910 --> 00:17:18,579
Harris who's featured on the ABC news if

386
00:17:23,069 --> 00:17:20,920
you turn on good morning america and you

387
00:17:25,260 --> 00:17:23,079
know a great book ten percent happier

388
00:17:28,199 --> 00:17:25,270
all about meditation mindfulness

389
00:17:30,090 --> 00:17:28,209
meditation it should really rusher in

390
00:17:32,910 --> 00:17:30,100
the kind of change that you're talking

391
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:32,920
about but it comes at meditation from a

392
00:17:38,340 --> 00:17:35,410
very secular kind of perspective an

393
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:38,350
atheist Buddhist kind of perspective I

394
00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:42,490
just don't think we're being if this is

395
00:17:47,190 --> 00:17:45,280
really a battle that were engaged in

396
00:17:49,290 --> 00:17:47,200
kind of like a legal battle that we're

397
00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:49,300
engaged in I don't think we're giving

398
00:17:53,850 --> 00:17:51,520
the other side enough credit when we

399
00:17:55,620 --> 00:17:53,860
just talk about consciousness well

400
00:17:58,950 --> 00:17:55,630
consciousness is rising and we're gonna

401
00:18:00,780 --> 00:17:58,960
be in this new age hey you know till

402
00:18:03,450 --> 00:18:00,790
Williams James that right a hundred

403
00:18:06,450 --> 00:18:03,460
years ago Williams James was one of the

404
00:18:08,790 --> 00:18:06,460
leading scientists in the world let

405
00:18:11,010 --> 00:18:08,800
alone leading psychologists at Harvard

406
00:18:13,650 --> 00:18:11,020
and groundbreaker where did that all go

407
00:18:16,050 --> 00:18:13,660
it went nowhere the Spiritualist

408
00:18:17,910 --> 00:18:16,060
movement of the turn of the night in

409
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:17,920
turn of the 20th century in the early

410
00:18:23,100 --> 00:18:20,410
nineteen hundreds totally flopped and

411
00:18:25,290 --> 00:18:23,110
was replaced by the kind of dorky

412
00:18:28,350 --> 00:18:25,300
materialism that you rail against and I

413
00:18:30,210 --> 00:18:28,360
rail against yeah and I think that first

414
00:18:31,529 --> 00:18:30,220
of all there's it's it's so important to

415
00:18:35,099 --> 00:18:31,539
define terms

416
00:18:38,129 --> 00:18:35,109
I had a cop had a couple atheists on my

417
00:18:40,229 --> 00:18:38,139
show and there's really two questions I

418
00:18:42,299 --> 00:18:40,239
would have first of all when you apply

419
00:18:44,879 --> 00:18:42,309
atheism are you saying that you do not

420
00:18:48,239 --> 00:18:44,889
believe in the god or gods of the Bible

421
00:18:50,129 --> 00:18:48,249
A or B does that mean that you don't

422
00:18:54,810 --> 00:18:50,139
think that there's any type of

423
00:18:57,330 --> 00:18:54,820
underlying spirit unity source divinity

424
00:19:00,719 --> 00:18:57,340
to human existence those are two

425
00:19:04,379 --> 00:19:00,729
separate questions and I think that for

426
00:19:06,570 --> 00:19:04,389
example Einstein was really a pantheist

427
00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:06,580
he really thought that nature is God

428
00:19:11,310 --> 00:19:08,710
when you read a lot of the quote unquote

429
00:19:14,849 --> 00:19:11,320
material science books they believe that

430
00:19:18,779 --> 00:19:14,859
God is the laws of nature they believe

431
00:19:22,229 --> 00:19:18,789
in the harmony of the world I think so

432
00:19:23,460 --> 00:19:22,239
so it really isn't there atheists in the

433
00:19:25,499 --> 00:19:23,470
sense that they may not believe that

434
00:19:30,180 --> 00:19:25,509
Jesus Christ rose from the dead or the

435
00:19:32,369 --> 00:19:30,190
Mohammed wrote the Quran but but they

436
00:19:35,099 --> 00:19:32,379
are not atheists in the sense that they

437
00:19:38,549 --> 00:19:35,109
don't believe in some kind of underlying

438
00:19:40,499 --> 00:19:38,559
purpose or harmony so I think that

439
00:19:42,690 --> 00:19:40,509
that's I think that's really important

440
00:19:44,219 --> 00:19:42,700
to make that distinction well I mean I

441
00:19:46,979 --> 00:19:44,229
think that's a that's a wonderful

442
00:19:48,930 --> 00:19:46,989
distinction for us to make because it

443
00:19:51,570 --> 00:19:48,940
kind of pulls some of those folks into

444
00:19:53,639 --> 00:19:51,580
our camp but I just don't see that out

445
00:19:55,619 --> 00:19:53,649
there I mean certainly in the internet

446
00:19:57,450 --> 00:19:55,629
when you talk about atheism you're not

447
00:19:59,879 --> 00:19:57,460
talking about any of those people these

448
00:20:02,580 --> 00:19:59,889
people people and that's not to this is

449
00:20:04,499 --> 00:20:02,590
not to denigrate them that they have a

450
00:20:06,389 --> 00:20:04,509
definite position in their position you

451
00:20:08,190 --> 00:20:06,399
know let's talk a little bit about their

452
00:20:11,339 --> 00:20:08,200
social position because in a lot of

453
00:20:14,789 --> 00:20:11,349
respects they their social positions I

454
00:20:17,759 --> 00:20:14,799
find very compatible with my own belief

455
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:17,769
so you know gay marriage they're all why

456
00:20:21,269 --> 00:20:19,210
would we not have gay marriage what's

457
00:20:26,009 --> 00:20:21,279
wrong with gay marriage and yet we have

458
00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:26,019
a the moralistic Christian side of our

459
00:20:31,499 --> 00:20:29,049
society has fought that vehemently for

460
00:20:33,629 --> 00:20:31,509
20 years same with abortion stem cell

461
00:20:37,129 --> 00:20:33,639
research all these kind of progressive

462
00:20:41,909 --> 00:20:37,139
social issues that are also i think

463
00:20:44,609 --> 00:20:41,919
issues for issues in this discourse

464
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:44,619
between science and religion are issues

465
00:20:47,790 --> 00:20:45,370
that the eighth

466
00:20:49,020 --> 00:20:47,800
this are on the right side of even if

467
00:20:51,090 --> 00:20:49,030
they're on the right side of them for

468
00:20:54,060 --> 00:20:51,100
the wrong reasons I mean why on earth

469
00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:54,070
would we want to prevent two people who

470
00:20:57,870 --> 00:20:55,840
love each other from getting married it

471
00:20:59,780 --> 00:20:57,880
seems like a silly issue and the only

472
00:21:02,280 --> 00:20:59,790
thing that's prevented it has been

473
00:21:04,170 --> 00:21:02,290
religious fundamentalism but it's not

474
00:21:05,549 --> 00:21:04,180
just fundamentalism you know I often

475
00:21:08,130 --> 00:21:05,559
tell people I mean I live in Southern

476
00:21:11,970 --> 00:21:08,140
California man in San Diego almost

477
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:11,980
liberal places in the country and you

478
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:14,530
know I have gone to church up out here

479
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:16,330
even though I haven't been a Christian

480
00:21:20,580 --> 00:21:17,890
the whole time I've been out here I've

481
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:20,590
gone I like to connect with people who

482
00:21:27,990 --> 00:21:22,690
are looking for that higher source but

483
00:21:29,940 --> 00:21:28,000
in my very liberal presbyterian church

484
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:29,950
right up the road that we have gone to

485
00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:33,850
their extremely again there's extremely

486
00:21:38,669 --> 00:21:36,130
against gay marriage they're extremely

487
00:21:40,830 --> 00:21:38,679
against gay priests all that stuff so

488
00:21:43,049 --> 00:21:40,840
don't the atheists kinda have a point

489
00:21:45,030 --> 00:21:43,059
with with these kind of social issues

490
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:45,040
and in the but the larger question is

491
00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:46,690
back to my question which I feel like I

492
00:21:50,820 --> 00:21:48,370
got a pin you down a little bit on

493
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:50,830
Phillip this what about this collapse of

494
00:21:56,850 --> 00:21:53,050
materialism man it ain't going to happen

495
00:21:59,820 --> 00:21:56,860
we added there's too much too much we've

496
00:22:02,040 --> 00:21:59,830
built into materialism and there's too

497
00:22:04,140 --> 00:22:02,050
many other forces like I was just

498
00:22:07,290 --> 00:22:04,150
talking about with the church and the

499
00:22:10,140 --> 00:22:07,300
the inability for the church to get get

500
00:22:11,930 --> 00:22:10,150
outside of its own dogma yeah i think

501
00:22:17,790 --> 00:22:11,940
frankly i think you're mixing up some

502
00:22:19,919 --> 00:22:17,800
different concepts uh and you know in

503
00:22:23,070 --> 00:22:19,929
your in your question in the way you in

504
00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:23,080
the way you presented that to me it's a

505
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:25,809
function of coming up with a theory that

506
00:22:31,890 --> 00:22:29,440
explains more materialism doesn't

507
00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:31,900
explain the full range of human

508
00:22:36,830 --> 00:22:35,200
experience it doesn't explain your death

509
00:22:39,660 --> 00:22:36,840
experiences it does explain

510
00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:39,670
parapsychology it doesn't explain

511
00:22:44,340 --> 00:22:42,000
phantom limbs i don't think it explains

512
00:22:46,650 --> 00:22:44,350
explains consciousness it doesn't

513
00:22:50,310 --> 00:22:46,660
explain where this funny idea of spirit

514
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:50,320
or God came from to me it's a it's a

515
00:22:56,580 --> 00:22:54,490
function of of replacing the scientific

516
00:22:58,950 --> 00:22:56,590
theory or that or the underlying

517
00:23:03,060 --> 00:22:58,960
worldview of materialism

518
00:23:06,180 --> 00:23:03,070
with a broader-based consciousness base

519
00:23:08,970 --> 00:23:06,190
or mind base or mine first world view I

520
00:23:12,570 --> 00:23:08,980
think this is a scientific revolution

521
00:23:15,299 --> 00:23:12,580
and let me let me be very clear here we

522
00:23:17,820 --> 00:23:15,309
are never going to give up the outside

523
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:17,830
world this is the world we live in all

524
00:23:24,029 --> 00:23:21,250
we ever do in my view of things is to

525
00:23:26,250 --> 00:23:24,039
change our perspective we change our

526
00:23:30,090 --> 00:23:26,260
perspective we accept things like energy

527
00:23:33,260 --> 00:23:30,100
healing as part of medical science we

528
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:33,270
accept parapsychology clairvoyance

529
00:23:38,909 --> 00:23:36,010
near-death experiences maybe an

530
00:23:42,029 --> 00:23:38,919
afterlife we accept these things as

531
00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:42,039
credible parts of our world instead of

532
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:45,520
rejecting them out of hand because they

533
00:23:50,220 --> 00:23:48,610
don't fit the model so to me materialism

534
00:23:52,220 --> 00:23:50,230
is collapsing because it's not

535
00:23:54,779 --> 00:23:52,230
explaining the full range of human

536
00:23:58,590 --> 00:23:54,789
experiences and there's more and more

537
00:24:01,409 --> 00:23:58,600
people understanding that that that you

538
00:24:05,519 --> 00:24:01,419
don't have to be a card-carrying

539
00:24:09,029 --> 00:24:05,529
materialist to be a rational person and

540
00:24:11,100 --> 00:24:09,039
so this is so this is where I'm coming

541
00:24:13,919 --> 00:24:11,110
from I think that materialism is

542
00:24:17,250 --> 00:24:13,929
collapsing because it's failing to

543
00:24:20,399 --> 00:24:17,260
explain the very world we live in you

544
00:24:23,610 --> 00:24:20,409
know we haven't even started with all

545
00:24:25,289 --> 00:24:23,620
the all the problems but but to me Alex

546
00:24:29,850 --> 00:24:25,299
and I want I want to say something here

547
00:24:32,159 --> 00:24:29,860
that that is sort of recent but there is

548
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:32,169
a fundamental inconsistency in

549
00:24:38,399 --> 00:24:34,090
materialism because remember there's no

550
00:24:42,060 --> 00:24:38,409
mind or spirit or involved in the world

551
00:24:44,490 --> 00:24:42,070
of the materialist and but as as the

552
00:24:48,570 --> 00:24:44,500
more scientists look at the world from

553
00:24:50,669 --> 00:24:48,580
the outer cosmos to the brain to human

554
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:50,679
life the more complicated is and the

555
00:24:57,659 --> 00:24:54,690
more organized it seems and so therefore

556
00:25:00,630 --> 00:24:57,669
science is starting to see to me that

557
00:25:02,279 --> 00:25:00,640
the only source of that order must be

558
00:25:04,649 --> 00:25:02,289
themselves we are looking at a

559
00:25:07,950 --> 00:25:04,659
reflection of ourselves because we're

560
00:25:10,110 --> 00:25:07,960
the only things around that can give

561
00:25:12,539 --> 00:25:10,120
order to the week that can give order to

562
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:12,549
the world a mine must be giving order to

563
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:12,890
the

564
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:17,810
where we accept it as being as being

565
00:25:23,140 --> 00:25:20,570
part of science as opposed to being some

566
00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:23,150
outlier thing you read about on these on

567
00:25:29,620 --> 00:25:26,110
these vision retreats you know obviously

568
00:25:32,530 --> 00:25:29,630
Phillip right there with you and had

569
00:25:34,870 --> 00:25:32,540
investigated these same issues and have

570
00:25:36,790 --> 00:25:34,880
sent come to the same conclusion but I

571
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:36,800
want to continue to kind of go along

572
00:25:42,460 --> 00:25:40,250
this line of playing devil's advocate a

573
00:25:45,430 --> 00:25:42,470
little bit because we could sit here and

574
00:25:49,300 --> 00:25:45,440
talk about the same stuff that we've

575
00:25:51,910 --> 00:25:49,310
both found in terms of the failings of

576
00:25:54,250 --> 00:25:51,920
materialism to explain consciousness the

577
00:25:56,170 --> 00:25:54,260
craziness of this idea that we are

578
00:25:59,920 --> 00:25:56,180
biological robots in a meaningless

579
00:26:02,020 --> 00:25:59,930
universe and all that's meant so but so

580
00:26:03,790 --> 00:26:02,030
let me jump over then and play devil's

581
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:03,800
advocate a little bit because it's going

582
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:06,050
to be more fun for me and I'd like you

583
00:26:10,150 --> 00:26:07,610
just made some good points there i'd

584
00:26:12,550 --> 00:26:10,160
like to hear some more of that here's i

585
00:26:14,890 --> 00:26:12,560
guess where i was really pushing is that

586
00:26:17,410 --> 00:26:14,900
back to my point of view being a

587
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:17,420
practical guy me being a practical guy

588
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:19,490
I'm a business guy you're a lawyer you

589
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:21,770
know I really step back and I say you

590
00:26:27,420 --> 00:26:25,370
know ideally what you're saying is great

591
00:26:29,590 --> 00:26:27,430
makes sense love to see that

592
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:29,600
transformation from a practical

593
00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:33,370
standpoint I know we live in a world of

594
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:36,400
absurdities this absurdity of

595
00:26:44,020 --> 00:26:40,010
materialism isn't the only absurdity we

596
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:44,030
live in the absurdity of children around

597
00:26:50,620 --> 00:26:47,330
the world starving from a lack of water

598
00:26:54,220 --> 00:26:50,630
from a lack of food from a lack of basic

599
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:54,230
medicine that we know how to deliver we

600
00:26:59,110 --> 00:26:56,930
know how to distribute we know all that

601
00:27:01,420 --> 00:26:59,120
that that kind of suffering doesn't have

602
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:01,430
to go on but you and I are going to lay

603
00:27:06,210 --> 00:27:02,930
our heads on the pillow tonight and

604
00:27:09,970 --> 00:27:06,220
that's going to happen and the we can't

605
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:09,980
put our arms around why that happens but

606
00:27:14,170 --> 00:27:11,210
we're going to get up tomorrow we're

607
00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:14,180
going to do our thing and the world is

608
00:27:18,850 --> 00:27:16,910
not going to change in that way tomorrow

609
00:27:20,830 --> 00:27:18,860
now maybe we can change it a little bit

610
00:27:24,460 --> 00:27:20,840
but it's going to be hard so in that

611
00:27:26,490 --> 00:27:24,470
sense from a real sense I don't see the

612
00:27:29,340 --> 00:27:26,500
kind of transformation

613
00:27:32,670 --> 00:27:29,350
that that you're talking about happening

614
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:32,680
I see a lot of reasons why it will not

615
00:27:39,570 --> 00:27:36,850
happen and why we are so amesh in this

616
00:27:43,380 --> 00:27:39,580
materialism and it's become a system

617
00:27:46,020 --> 00:27:43,390
that works for us as crazy as it is it

618
00:27:49,230 --> 00:27:46,030
works for us to kind of put on the

619
00:27:51,900 --> 00:27:49,240
blinders and pretend like the world is a

620
00:27:54,630 --> 00:27:51,910
giant newtonian clock that's been wound

621
00:27:56,820 --> 00:27:54,640
up and is just playing out even though

622
00:27:58,530 --> 00:27:56,830
for the last hundred years and you do a

623
00:28:01,650 --> 00:27:58,540
great job of pointing this out in your

624
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:01,660
book we've known that Newtonian physics

625
00:28:10,350 --> 00:28:04,810
doesn't work in that way yet we still

626
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:10,360
play that game so in that way I I again

627
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:12,850
want to ask you why do we really think

628
00:28:18,270 --> 00:28:16,000
that materialism is going to change and

629
00:28:20,670 --> 00:28:18,280
don't you see a lot of the same

630
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:20,680
obstacles that i'm talking about that

631
00:28:25,290 --> 00:28:23,170
would prevent a real kind of paradigm

632
00:28:27,270 --> 00:28:25,300
shift like you're talking about well i

633
00:28:30,270 --> 00:28:27,280
think first of all you start with a very

634
00:28:32,460 --> 00:28:30,280
basic question and and then you know you

635
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:32,470
come to a road and and there's the old

636
00:28:38,460 --> 00:28:35,650
famous fork there and the first question

637
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:38,470
you you ask yourself is is this all

638
00:28:42,990 --> 00:28:40,090
hopeless should i give up and just go

639
00:28:45,540 --> 00:28:43,000
home or should i venture and give it a

640
00:28:46,950 --> 00:28:45,550
shot no no I'm sorry to interrupt but I

641
00:28:48,510 --> 00:28:46,960
want to interject a different question

642
00:28:50,100 --> 00:28:48,520
because I hear that a lot that's but

643
00:28:52,260 --> 00:28:50,110
that's not my point that's not where I'm

644
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:52,270
coming from I'd come in from a different

645
00:28:56,250 --> 00:28:54,010
standpoint I'd come out and say my

646
00:28:58,140 --> 00:28:56,260
conclusion is this to put my hand down

647
00:29:00,390 --> 00:28:58,150
there is it's all about personal

648
00:29:02,940 --> 00:29:00,400
transformation but if you're trying to

649
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:02,950
make sense of this world and trying to

650
00:29:07,860 --> 00:29:05,770
fit it into some larger paradigm I guess

651
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:07,870
I have a much more of a gnostic kind of

652
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:11,050
point of view I don't know exactly what

653
00:29:15,930 --> 00:29:13,330
this world is for but maybe this world

654
00:29:18,300 --> 00:29:15,940
is perfect the way that it is maybe all

655
00:29:19,980 --> 00:29:18,310
this pain and suffering and in and I

656
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:19,990
experienced so much less pain that it's

657
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:22,690
easy for me to say that because I have a

658
00:29:27,330 --> 00:29:25,210
very very comfortable lifestyle compared

659
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:27,340
to eighty percent of the people in the

660
00:29:33,330 --> 00:29:29,410
world who live on like a hundred dollars

661
00:29:36,690 --> 00:29:33,340
a year or less but still I just have to

662
00:29:39,419 --> 00:29:36,700
wonder if this transformation that I

663
00:29:40,380 --> 00:29:39,429
hear so many people talk about is really

664
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:40,390
where the action

665
00:29:44,790 --> 00:29:42,690
is about or whether it's really about

666
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:44,800
personal transformation the

667
00:29:50,210 --> 00:29:46,810
transformation that you or I can make in

668
00:29:53,700 --> 00:29:50,220
an instant when we make that shift

669
00:29:56,100 --> 00:29:53,710
inside ourselves well I think it begins

670
00:30:02,040 --> 00:29:56,110
with the personal transformation but I

671
00:30:06,810 --> 00:30:02,050
think that there is power in unity and

672
00:30:08,940 --> 00:30:06,820
there's power in a critical mass the the

673
00:30:11,820 --> 00:30:08,950
whole there's an underlying there's a

674
00:30:14,940 --> 00:30:11,830
win-win underlying this just like

675
00:30:19,010 --> 00:30:14,950
there's a win-win underlying morality I

676
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:19,020
think that as the the personal

677
00:30:24,260 --> 00:30:21,610
transformations continue and as they

678
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:24,270
build and as there's people of like

679
00:30:31,170 --> 00:30:28,330
minds going down the same path in other

680
00:30:34,590 --> 00:30:31,180
words we break down the barriers that

681
00:30:36,990 --> 00:30:34,600
are separating different religions we

682
00:30:39,450 --> 00:30:37,000
start looking at people as human beings

683
00:30:42,210 --> 00:30:39,460
as opposed to people of different race

684
00:30:44,610 --> 00:30:42,220
colors and creeds and we start treating

685
00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:44,620
it so each other better now that maybe

686
00:30:49,700 --> 00:30:46,960
sounds like a bunch of happy talk and

687
00:30:52,410 --> 00:30:49,710
maybe it is but the point is is that

688
00:30:54,060 --> 00:30:52,420
materialism teaches that we are separate

689
00:30:55,710 --> 00:30:54,070
we're separate from each other we're

690
00:30:57,990 --> 00:30:55,720
separate from the world and we're

691
00:31:00,230 --> 00:30:58,000
separate from God or whatever we're

692
00:31:04,170 --> 00:31:00,240
going to call the source and that

693
00:31:06,210 --> 00:31:04,180
teaching I don't think is valid and I

694
00:31:09,090 --> 00:31:06,220
think that that teaching is separating

695
00:31:12,660 --> 00:31:09,100
ourselves from taking advantage of the

696
00:31:14,790 --> 00:31:12,670
power of the world and I think the big

697
00:31:18,170 --> 00:31:14,800
the big thing here Alex and this will

698
00:31:22,770 --> 00:31:18,180
ask you a question now imagine that

699
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:22,780
people start living longer they start

700
00:31:28,470 --> 00:31:25,330
staying younger longer and it's because

701
00:31:32,190 --> 00:31:28,480
of this consciousness raising whatever

702
00:31:36,810 --> 00:31:32,200
were we want to use suppose we see real

703
00:31:40,830 --> 00:31:36,820
change in the world we start seeing it's

704
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:40,840
it's like it's like a energy healing on

705
00:31:48,330 --> 00:31:45,370
more of a global scale it starts working

706
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:48,340
now you try to tell me that we're going

707
00:31:52,740 --> 00:31:49,810
to run back and start taking our

708
00:31:54,300 --> 00:31:52,750
pharmaceutical drugs and start you know

709
00:31:56,010 --> 00:31:54,310
make as much money as possible as

710
00:31:58,260 --> 00:31:56,020
cream all over ourselves and everything

711
00:32:00,450 --> 00:31:58,270
we're gonna go back to materialism now

712
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:00,460
this is this is what I'm time talking

713
00:32:05,790 --> 00:32:03,010
about and this you know you want to

714
00:32:08,310 --> 00:32:05,800
practically i think that the only way

715
00:32:11,610 --> 00:32:08,320
this revolution will ever work is if

716
00:32:13,710 --> 00:32:11,620
there is real change in the world and in

717
00:32:18,180 --> 00:32:13,720
ourselves that because then it will

718
00:32:22,050 --> 00:32:18,190
build on itself so so this is this is

719
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:22,060
where i think the the power of this

720
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:24,610
comes from it's not you it's personal

721
00:32:28,830 --> 00:32:26,290
transformation but it's also leading

722
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:28,840
towards unity and let me ask you

723
00:32:39,450 --> 00:32:33,250
something what do you think the barriers

724
00:32:43,220 --> 00:32:39,460
are to changing mindsets good i think

725
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:43,230
there are many and i think it's easy to

726
00:32:50,330 --> 00:32:46,330
underestimate like i'm like i was saying

727
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:50,340
the amount of force that is behind

728
00:32:55,830 --> 00:32:53,890
materialism as we know it science as we

729
00:32:58,110 --> 00:32:55,840
know it and i think one of the wonderful

730
00:33:00,980 --> 00:32:58,120
things about the internet is that it's

731
00:33:04,110 --> 00:33:00,990
allowed people like you and I to form

732
00:33:07,470 --> 00:33:04,120
communities and to join those

733
00:33:10,380 --> 00:33:07,480
communities and you know it strengthen

734
00:33:12,750 --> 00:33:10,390
ourselves strengthen each other with

735
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:12,760
these ideas that are certainly

736
00:33:18,180 --> 00:33:15,850
empowering enriching they've enriched my

737
00:33:20,190 --> 00:33:18,190
life tremendously I mean my show skeptic

738
00:33:23,090 --> 00:33:20,200
oh I can't tell you how much it's

739
00:33:25,830 --> 00:33:23,100
changed me as a person both

740
00:33:27,570 --> 00:33:25,840
intellectually but spiritually in a very

741
00:33:29,970 --> 00:33:27,580
deep and profound way that I don't

742
00:33:32,610 --> 00:33:29,980
usually talk about on the show so I'm

743
00:33:35,550 --> 00:33:32,620
right there with you but I think the

744
00:33:40,020 --> 00:33:35,560
flip side of that is that I think we can

745
00:33:43,580 --> 00:33:40,030
sometimes get a skewed view of how our

746
00:33:46,230 --> 00:33:43,590
smaller communities fit into the larger

747
00:33:48,330 --> 00:33:46,240
scheme of things and that's why I guess

748
00:33:50,670 --> 00:33:48,340
I was kind of reaching for the the

749
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:50,680
Atheist thing because I have been

750
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:52,810
talking to them and when I reach out and

751
00:33:58,800 --> 00:33:56,650
I really get into their shoes one I see

752
00:34:01,020 --> 00:33:58,810
them as fundamentalists I see them

753
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:01,030
falling into the same traps that the

754
00:34:06,150 --> 00:34:03,010
fundamentalist Christians that they rail

755
00:34:07,289 --> 00:34:06,160
against have fallen into of dogma

756
00:34:09,899 --> 00:34:07,299
doctrine or

757
00:34:12,270 --> 00:34:09,909
ah doc see they're all bound up in that

758
00:34:15,089 --> 00:34:12,280
stuff but at the same time they do have

759
00:34:18,299 --> 00:34:15,099
a lot of points in terms of what's wrong

760
00:34:20,099 --> 00:34:18,309
how hopeless we are in terms of figuring

761
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:20,109
this stuff out I guess the other

762
00:34:24,659 --> 00:34:22,690
influence that I have that I haven't

763
00:34:26,849 --> 00:34:24,669
heard you talk about and I think it's

764
00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:26,859
kind of I wouldn't be surprised if you

765
00:34:32,780 --> 00:34:28,960
haven't investigated it that much but i

766
00:34:35,909 --> 00:34:32,790
think the the conspiracy issues are are

767
00:34:37,139 --> 00:34:35,919
right in the center of this well it's

768
00:34:39,240 --> 00:34:37,149
funny you should say that because i just

769
00:34:41,309 --> 00:34:39,250
circled the work in spiracy on my nose

770
00:34:43,289 --> 00:34:41,319
before you said that so so I'm sorry it

771
00:34:45,809 --> 00:34:43,299
for interrupt touch but you're right on

772
00:34:48,059 --> 00:34:45,819
point go ahead I'm sorry no that's cool

773
00:34:50,190 --> 00:34:48,069
that's quite alright and I mean here's

774
00:34:51,839 --> 00:34:50,200
and before people take that the wrong

775
00:34:55,409 --> 00:34:51,849
way and kind of think i'm going to say

776
00:34:57,690 --> 00:34:55,419
some kind of wacky stuff you know coming

777
00:35:00,359 --> 00:34:57,700
from the business world you know when i

778
00:35:03,030 --> 00:35:00,369
started out my business career with my

779
00:35:04,890 --> 00:35:03,040
mba i went to work for a large

780
00:35:09,150 --> 00:35:04,900
accounting firm what was price

781
00:35:10,620 --> 00:35:09,160
waterhouse is now what is it pw cooper

782
00:35:12,450 --> 00:35:10,630
whatever still one of largest accounting

783
00:35:14,339 --> 00:35:12,460
firms in the world I was fresh out of

784
00:35:16,410 --> 00:35:14,349
school I was a you know they slap a

785
00:35:17,730 --> 00:35:16,420
Brooks Brothers suit on you and kind of

786
00:35:19,980 --> 00:35:17,740
send you out there like you know what

787
00:35:22,859 --> 00:35:19,990
you're doing and you really don't but I

788
00:35:24,420 --> 00:35:22,869
was naive as to what I was doing and how

789
00:35:27,539 --> 00:35:24,430
things were working I was at a low level

790
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:27,549
and there weren't any conspiracies in

791
00:35:32,579 --> 00:35:29,890
business business was a pretty much a

792
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:32,589
straight transaction and that's how it

793
00:35:37,079 --> 00:35:35,170
looked well as my career advanced and

794
00:35:39,839 --> 00:35:37,089
eventually I had my own company and

795
00:35:41,730 --> 00:35:39,849
eventually I was doing larger deals and

796
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:41,740
I eventually sold my company to a

797
00:35:47,579 --> 00:35:44,290
publicly traded company when you're at

798
00:35:49,829 --> 00:35:47,589
that level it's all a conspiracy every

799
00:35:52,099 --> 00:35:49,839
bit of it is a conspiracy and I'm sure

800
00:35:54,450 --> 00:35:52,109
you can relate to that for as a lawyer

801
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:54,460
everyone is going behind each other's

802
00:35:59,280 --> 00:35:57,010
back peddling information trying to

803
00:36:01,559 --> 00:35:59,290
influence people conspiring with other

804
00:36:04,140 --> 00:36:01,569
people that you know everything is a

805
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:04,150
conspiracy when the money or power is

806
00:36:09,569 --> 00:36:06,970
involved and I think people who are

807
00:36:13,410 --> 00:36:09,579
naive to that who don't understand that

808
00:36:16,140 --> 00:36:13,420
are not seeing the whole picture I think

809
00:36:18,599 --> 00:36:16,150
that certainly has a hand is a hand in

810
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:18,609
it when it comes to science but I think

811
00:36:22,829 --> 00:36:20,170
it also has a

812
00:36:25,799 --> 00:36:22,839
wrong hand in the way culture is shaped

813
00:36:29,010 --> 00:36:25,809
the way society is shaped and the way

814
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:29,020
that this consciousness revolution that

815
00:36:35,220 --> 00:36:32,650
we would like to see happen I think that

816
00:36:38,309 --> 00:36:35,230
people that are in power would have

817
00:36:41,220 --> 00:36:38,319
something to say about that and I'm not

818
00:36:43,589 --> 00:36:41,230
trying to be obtuse there or allude to

819
00:36:46,620 --> 00:36:43,599
anything but anything that is going to

820
00:36:50,039 --> 00:36:46,630
seriously upset the machine that we live

821
00:36:52,650 --> 00:36:50,049
in they're going to have a say in it and

822
00:36:55,260 --> 00:36:52,660
I think they already do have a say in it

823
00:36:57,059 --> 00:36:55,270
and that's why I think science is the

824
00:36:59,940 --> 00:36:57,069
way that it is and that's why I think

825
00:37:02,970 --> 00:36:59,950
we're stuck with this phony science

826
00:37:05,789 --> 00:37:02,980
versus religion a drama that gets played

827
00:37:08,370 --> 00:37:05,799
out that as you so correctly point out

828
00:37:10,559 --> 00:37:08,380
in your book is completely beside the

829
00:37:13,109 --> 00:37:10,569
point you know it got to mrs. the misses

830
00:37:16,230 --> 00:37:13,119
the target on both sides yeah but well

831
00:37:18,930 --> 00:37:16,240
there's something in law in antitrust is

832
00:37:21,690 --> 00:37:18,940
called unconscious parallelism just a

833
00:37:24,059 --> 00:37:21,700
big word it's sort of like even if

834
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:24,069
people don't intentionally fix prices

835
00:37:31,349 --> 00:37:27,490
there's this unconscious agreement so I

836
00:37:34,260 --> 00:37:31,359
i I'm more of a fan of calling it this

837
00:37:39,530 --> 00:37:34,270
unconscious agreement than sort of an

838
00:37:42,390 --> 00:37:39,540
overt conspiracy I am getting closer to

839
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:42,400
thinking that's more obvious but you

840
00:37:45,660 --> 00:37:43,930
know there's that famous saying i think

841
00:37:47,130 --> 00:37:45,670
it was Wigner and i'm sure other folks

842
00:37:48,930 --> 00:37:47,140
in your show of tzedakah is one of my

843
00:37:51,510 --> 00:37:48,940
favorite the whole thing about the

844
00:37:54,510 --> 00:37:51,520
science progresses funeral by funeral I

845
00:37:57,289 --> 00:37:54,520
mean I I think that that that says a lot

846
00:37:59,760 --> 00:37:57,299
I mean what I'm talking about is a

847
00:38:02,670 --> 00:37:59,770
generational thing I think it's going to

848
00:38:05,069 --> 00:38:02,680
take a long time to get where we need to

849
00:38:07,319 --> 00:38:05,079
go I don't think it's going to happen

850
00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:07,329
tomorrow so I would agree with you Alex

851
00:38:13,020 --> 00:38:10,240
said that it's very easy to get pie in

852
00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:13,030
the sky with some of this stuff but on

853
00:38:17,940 --> 00:38:15,609
the other hand you sort of have to start

854
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:17,950
from somewhere I sort of view it like

855
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:20,650
attacking the Citadel you know attacking

856
00:38:26,130 --> 00:38:23,770
a castle and it's going to take years

857
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:26,140
and decades and maybe generations to get

858
00:38:31,380 --> 00:38:28,450
there but each of us has our little role

859
00:38:33,220 --> 00:38:31,390
to play I mean your show is made great

860
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:33,230
strides in

861
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:36,050
ringing to the public you know these

862
00:38:41,590 --> 00:38:38,090
leading thinkers and you know you're a

863
00:38:44,410 --> 00:38:41,600
very pro being inquisitive interviewer

864
00:38:46,630 --> 00:38:44,420
so so you challenged people and you know

865
00:38:49,690 --> 00:38:46,640
I think that that just that's great

866
00:38:51,730 --> 00:38:49,700
because what we want to do to use the

867
00:38:54,340 --> 00:38:51,740
Royal we is to get people thinking for

868
00:38:58,510 --> 00:38:54,350
themselves and that's ultimately what

869
00:39:01,660 --> 00:38:58,520
I'm trying to do because truth should be

870
00:39:04,330 --> 00:39:01,670
a universal thing I mean too much of the

871
00:39:06,970 --> 00:39:04,340
time both in Orthodox religion and

872
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:06,980
science it's pounded into your head this

873
00:39:11,349 --> 00:39:09,170
is what you're supposed to believe in

874
00:39:12,849 --> 00:39:11,359
order to go to heaven this is what you

875
00:39:15,670 --> 00:39:12,859
have to believe in order to get the

876
00:39:18,490 --> 00:39:15,680
grant to get the PhD to get an a on your

877
00:39:21,820 --> 00:39:18,500
paper this is what you have to do that

878
00:39:25,690 --> 00:39:21,830
we don't we need more independent

879
00:39:29,590 --> 00:39:25,700
thinkers so that so that we we are not

880
00:39:33,010 --> 00:39:29,600
burdened by history and by culture and

881
00:39:36,670 --> 00:39:33,020
so you know you mentioned the Internet

882
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:36,680
it's been an unbelievable benefit to all

883
00:39:41,290 --> 00:39:39,170
of us because those who did not have a

884
00:39:43,599 --> 00:39:41,300
voice before now have a voice and

885
00:39:47,530 --> 00:39:43,609
frankly Alex I think a lot of this is

886
00:39:49,630 --> 00:39:47,540
sort of the search for credibility the

887
00:39:52,810 --> 00:39:49,640
search for credibility if you look at

888
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:52,820
the leading thinkers the leading

889
00:39:57,700 --> 00:39:55,010
scientists they're virtually without

890
00:39:59,470 --> 00:39:57,710
exception materialists and that's the

891
00:40:02,020 --> 00:39:59,480
message that we're hearing you know

892
00:40:04,599 --> 00:40:02,030
Stephen Hawking the you know the movie

893
00:40:06,550 --> 00:40:04,609
theory no love story blah blah blah but

894
00:40:09,460 --> 00:40:06,560
the point is that this guy is a

895
00:40:11,740 --> 00:40:09,470
hard-core materialist he thinks that we

896
00:40:14,980 --> 00:40:11,750
are chemical scum that's a that that's a

897
00:40:18,370 --> 00:40:14,990
quote that heaven doesn't exist and and

898
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:18,380
so we need to change the messaging and

899
00:40:23,290 --> 00:40:21,410
that's sort of what what I'm about and I

900
00:40:27,609 --> 00:40:23,300
think frankly that's what you're about

901
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:27,619
well no I I agree with you to a point

902
00:40:34,390 --> 00:40:31,130
I'm very a 1 i'm delighted that you feel

903
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:34,400
that way and I mean that's then my my

904
00:40:37,870 --> 00:40:36,530
thing as well I'm always a little

905
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:37,880
uncomfortable when we start talking

906
00:40:42,580 --> 00:40:40,010
about the message you know because then

907
00:40:45,099 --> 00:40:42,590
we're becoming what we yeah we're

908
00:40:46,870 --> 00:40:45,109
becoming what we kind of are trying to

909
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:46,880
oppose to a certain extent

910
00:40:51,670 --> 00:40:48,890
I'm very much in a conic last you know I

911
00:40:54,130 --> 00:40:51,680
love collapsing yeah let's tear it all

912
00:40:56,620 --> 00:40:54,140
down and build it up the other thing I

913
00:40:59,680 --> 00:40:56,630
guess that that I am about and I think

914
00:41:02,109 --> 00:40:59,690
that I've personally experienced and I

915
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:02,119
want everyone else to experience who

916
00:41:07,990 --> 00:41:04,490
listens to skeptic oh is that this

917
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:08,000
search for the truth that you're talking

918
00:41:13,749 --> 00:41:10,160
about this true the search for the data

919
00:41:17,769 --> 00:41:13,759
following the data can really take you a

920
00:41:21,670 --> 00:41:17,779
long way and as you just pointed out the

921
00:41:26,319 --> 00:41:21,680
Internet is the great equalizer you can

922
00:41:29,620 --> 00:41:26,329
lay side by side Hawking and his critics

923
00:41:32,859 --> 00:41:29,630
and these papers folks you know even

924
00:41:35,259 --> 00:41:32,869
these peer-reviewed papers that seem so

925
00:41:37,329 --> 00:41:35,269
you know unreachable to the average

926
00:41:39,460 --> 00:41:37,339
person they're not you know why because

927
00:41:42,849 --> 00:41:39,470
more and more scientists are having to

928
00:41:47,140 --> 00:41:42,859
write for interdisciplinary publications

929
00:41:48,730 --> 00:41:47,150
and cross-disciplinary academics who are

930
00:41:50,710 --> 00:41:48,740
maybe not trained in their particular

931
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:50,720
thing you can't go in there and you can

932
00:41:55,259 --> 00:41:53,450
pull apart this research yourself so you

933
00:41:58,089 --> 00:41:55,269
can recent listen to Philip and his

934
00:42:00,279 --> 00:41:58,099
guests summarize it for you and tell you

935
00:42:02,650 --> 00:42:00,289
their opinions on conversations beyond

936
00:42:04,900 --> 00:42:02,660
science and religion or if you want you

937
00:42:06,759 --> 00:42:04,910
can go in and you can follow up and you

938
00:42:08,529 --> 00:42:06,769
can pull up those papers and you can

939
00:42:10,450 --> 00:42:08,539
pull them apart and read them and we've

940
00:42:14,230 --> 00:42:10,460
done a lot of that on skeptical as well

941
00:42:17,349 --> 00:42:14,240
but that process is doable and is a

942
00:42:20,620 --> 00:42:17,359
knowable process that I think from my

943
00:42:23,170 --> 00:42:20,630
experience has led to a transformation

944
00:42:27,370 --> 00:42:23,180
for me a transformation not because I

945
00:42:30,339 --> 00:42:27,380
had a any kind of divine or psychic

946
00:42:33,609 --> 00:42:30,349
experience but just by following the

947
00:42:35,529 --> 00:42:33,619
data by doing as you described in no one

948
00:42:37,420 --> 00:42:35,539
of your I think on your website there

949
00:42:39,130 --> 00:42:37,430
you know just doing some of the basic

950
00:42:41,319 --> 00:42:39,140
stuff you learned as a lawyer in terms

951
00:42:43,569 --> 00:42:41,329
of breaking down an argument putting

952
00:42:45,220 --> 00:42:43,579
both sides doing the old Ben Franklin

953
00:42:48,660 --> 00:42:45,230
the pros and the cons and weighing the

954
00:42:51,549 --> 00:42:48,670
evidence that stuff can can lead to a

955
00:42:53,140 --> 00:42:51,559
transformation that's what my works

956
00:42:55,990 --> 00:42:53,150
about that's what's kept goes about and

957
00:42:58,420 --> 00:42:56,000
i do think i have to say from reading

958
00:42:59,890 --> 00:42:58,430
your book and listening to enough of

959
00:43:00,490 --> 00:42:59,900
your show now i think that's what you're

960
00:43:03,070 --> 00:43:00,500
about to

961
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:03,080
yeah I think that you know we could

962
00:43:09,100 --> 00:43:05,330
control ourselves that's one thing that

963
00:43:10,660 --> 00:43:09,110
is guaranteed and they mean and you

964
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:10,670
could put this in a lot of different

965
00:43:16,420 --> 00:43:13,850
ways such as writing your own story you

966
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:16,430
know directing your own destiny all that

967
00:43:20,740 --> 00:43:18,770
kind of all that kind of stuff but

968
00:43:25,060 --> 00:43:20,750
heaven but you know you know for

969
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:25,070
heaven's sake up find your own way and

970
00:43:32,500 --> 00:43:27,920
think for yourself I mean I I think that

971
00:43:35,170 --> 00:43:32,510
I win or this this view of the world the

972
00:43:38,650 --> 00:43:35,180
consciousness based of my based approach

973
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:38,660
wins at the end of the day for the open

974
00:43:45,970 --> 00:43:42,890
minded crowd that's because that's where

975
00:43:48,670 --> 00:43:45,980
things lead but it's just like anything

976
00:43:51,420 --> 00:43:48,680
else the only way you really convince

977
00:43:55,240 --> 00:43:51,430
somebody is if they convince themselves

978
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:55,250
all you could do is lead them is try to

979
00:43:59,740 --> 00:43:57,650
try to get them to consider different

980
00:44:01,990 --> 00:43:59,750
ideas and if they go through that

981
00:44:04,510 --> 00:44:02,000
thought process themselves and reach

982
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:04,520
that conclusions ie that the world is

983
00:44:09,550 --> 00:44:06,890
conscious of space for example as

984
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:09,560
opposed to matter based now we're

985
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:12,770
talking about something and so this this

986
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:15,050
is this is why Alex I think this is

987
00:44:19,060 --> 00:44:17,330
going to take a while this is not gonna

988
00:44:20,290 --> 00:44:19,070
I mean but but look at this way I mean

989
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:20,300
you've been doing your show for seven

990
00:44:25,090 --> 00:44:22,730
eight years now right and and I and now

991
00:44:28,570 --> 00:44:25,100
what have you seen things change do you

992
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:28,580
see any any any mind minds opening you

993
00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:30,050
see a changing your gas and your

994
00:44:34,900 --> 00:44:31,730
listeners I mean have you seen anything

995
00:44:36,610 --> 00:44:34,910
the grow over over the time you've been

996
00:44:39,850 --> 00:44:36,620
doing your show I have to admit that

997
00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:39,860
that yes I have I'm just reluctant to

998
00:44:46,150 --> 00:44:42,400
make too much of that you know because

999
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:46,160
have you ever read any of Michael Tim's

1000
00:44:52,060 --> 00:44:50,570
books or seeing his his website people

1001
00:44:54,670 --> 00:44:52,070
might die I did an interview with them

1002
00:44:59,170 --> 00:44:54,680
and you can also well the an incredible

1003
00:45:01,300 --> 00:44:59,180
job of documenting the sum of the real

1004
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:01,310
giants of the Spiritualist movement

1005
00:45:06,670 --> 00:45:02,930
again around the turn of the 20th

1006
00:45:09,580 --> 00:45:06,680
century early 1900s and many of the

1007
00:45:11,260 --> 00:45:09,590
mediums we still have extensive records

1008
00:45:13,450 --> 00:45:11,270
hundreds of pages that have been

1009
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:13,460
collected on those people on the

1010
00:45:17,349 --> 00:45:14,450
readings

1011
00:45:21,069 --> 00:45:17,359
the the brightest and best minds of the

1012
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:21,079
age were very interested in this and had

1013
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:22,970
applied the best science to

1014
00:45:28,300 --> 00:45:25,490
investigating it and had concluded that

1015
00:45:30,670 --> 00:45:28,310
there was a reality to it you know yes I

1016
00:45:33,609 --> 00:45:30,680
always see that as a cautionary tale of

1017
00:45:35,890 --> 00:45:33,619
this idea that we're making progress and

1018
00:45:38,470 --> 00:45:35,900
the revolution is right around the

1019
00:45:42,550 --> 00:45:38,480
corner consciousness rising yeah maybe

1020
00:45:45,190 --> 00:45:42,560
maybe not and that's why I prefer to say

1021
00:45:46,569 --> 00:45:45,200
again I relate everything back to my

1022
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:46,579
personal experience because that's all I

1023
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:48,410
can talk about that's all I can talk

1024
00:45:54,670 --> 00:45:50,810
about on The Skeptical show is that for

1025
00:45:57,099 --> 00:45:54,680
me I don't care about I mean I'd love to

1026
00:45:59,740 --> 00:45:57,109
see that happen I'd love to to help

1027
00:46:04,030 --> 00:45:59,750
others along their path whatever their

1028
00:46:09,010 --> 00:46:04,040
path is but my message is I have been

1029
00:46:12,370 --> 00:46:09,020
transformed by the data not by any guru

1030
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:12,380
or special kind of spiritual experience

1031
00:46:17,109 --> 00:46:14,450
just the data can be transformational

1032
00:46:19,420 --> 00:46:17,119
and the way I wake up every day is

1033
00:46:21,900 --> 00:46:19,430
different because of what I've learned

1034
00:46:25,059 --> 00:46:21,910
so it doesn't matter if there's a

1035
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:25,069
consciousness shift if there's this

1036
00:46:29,829 --> 00:46:27,770
global change because the global change

1037
00:46:32,349 --> 00:46:29,839
for me has already happened the global

1038
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:32,359
change for my wife who can tolerate me

1039
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:34,130
maybe a tiny bit more has already

1040
00:46:38,109 --> 00:46:35,690
happened for my kids it's already

1041
00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:38,119
happened hopefully every day I practice

1042
00:46:41,890 --> 00:46:40,250
and try and be a better person to the

1043
00:46:43,359 --> 00:46:41,900
people around me that's the kind of

1044
00:46:45,069 --> 00:46:43,369
transformation we don't have to wait

1045
00:46:47,470 --> 00:46:45,079
five minutes for that we can make that

1046
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:47,480
happen right now I I think that that's a

1047
00:46:51,250 --> 00:46:48,770
very I think that's a really good point

1048
00:46:54,069 --> 00:46:51,260
i think we we get lost sometimes in the

1049
00:46:56,620 --> 00:46:54,079
terminology and i think that it it sort

1050
00:46:59,200 --> 00:46:56,630
of puts a lot of people off in the

1051
00:47:02,260 --> 00:46:59,210
scientists i mean i think it if you want

1052
00:47:03,790 --> 00:47:02,270
to disillusion a scientist quickly you

1053
00:47:08,170 --> 00:47:03,800
know you start using words like

1054
00:47:11,349 --> 00:47:08,180
consciousness-raising and end up you

1055
00:47:15,579 --> 00:47:11,359
know conscious evolution and New Age and

1056
00:47:17,859 --> 00:47:15,589
spirituality I mean it's it's not those

1057
00:47:21,700 --> 00:47:17,869
terms don't have scientific currency

1058
00:47:24,849 --> 00:47:21,710
right now and I I myself struggle to use

1059
00:47:27,069 --> 00:47:24,859
terminology that has some weight and

1060
00:47:27,970 --> 00:47:27,079
credibility to it but i think but i

1061
00:47:29,410 --> 00:47:27,980
think the point you're

1062
00:47:33,370 --> 00:47:29,420
making is really good because at the end

1063
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:33,380
of the day it is a personal

1064
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:35,090
transformation I would agree with you

1065
00:47:39,790 --> 00:47:37,130
and what does it really mean it means

1066
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:39,800
that we're better people I think that's

1067
00:47:44,470 --> 00:47:41,570
what it means because if it doesn't mean

1068
00:47:45,820 --> 00:47:44,480
that then this is not worth it right you

1069
00:47:48,370 --> 00:47:45,830
know that's what that's what it means

1070
00:47:50,050 --> 00:47:48,380
it's sort of like Buddha you know you

1071
00:47:53,580 --> 00:47:50,060
know we sit there and we recite the

1072
00:47:56,050 --> 00:47:53,590
Eightfold Path and I'll right conduct

1073
00:47:59,620 --> 00:47:56,060
right education well one of them is is

1074
00:48:03,790 --> 00:47:59,630
is moral is right conduct its thinking

1075
00:48:08,020 --> 00:48:03,800
it's it's it's part of its part of not

1076
00:48:09,910 --> 00:48:08,030
only appreciating the world and the

1077
00:48:12,580 --> 00:48:09,920
miracle the world or the wonder of the

1078
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:12,590
world as Tim freaky would say but it's

1079
00:48:18,609 --> 00:48:16,130
also realizing that we're part of

1080
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:18,619
something and that it's good at and that

1081
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:21,650
were more than a random combination of

1082
00:48:27,700 --> 00:48:24,650
particles and so I would be perfectly

1083
00:48:30,910 --> 00:48:27,710
happy if if when everything is said and

1084
00:48:33,370 --> 00:48:30,920
done we have people that are better

1085
00:48:35,710 --> 00:48:33,380
people that are nicer to each other that

1086
00:48:38,950 --> 00:48:35,720
are more respectful of each other end of

1087
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:38,960
the world that would be that's really

1088
00:48:43,780 --> 00:48:41,330
what this is all about when you when you

1089
00:48:45,250 --> 00:48:43,790
boil it down to its essence we're not

1090
00:48:48,670 --> 00:48:45,260
going to have people flying around like

1091
00:48:50,980 --> 00:48:48,680
angels or going off to mountain retreats

1092
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:50,990
all maybe we still will but the point is

1093
00:48:56,230 --> 00:48:54,050
is that this whole movement i think is

1094
00:48:59,200 --> 00:48:56,240
supposed to affect the way we look at

1095
00:49:01,900 --> 00:48:59,210
the person across the table across the

1096
00:49:04,060 --> 00:49:01,910
street that's what this is about so i

1097
00:49:06,580 --> 00:49:04,070
can ply agree with you on that night and

1098
00:49:10,060 --> 00:49:06,590
I also think your point that too much of

1099
00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:10,070
this gets lost in the airiness of the

1100
00:49:15,550 --> 00:49:13,730
concepts is is it really is really good

1101
00:49:18,070 --> 00:49:15,560
I mean I think that you know you

1102
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:18,080
meditate yeah I've tried it and I've

1103
00:49:23,980 --> 00:49:21,050
been having given up but to me if it

1104
00:49:26,710 --> 00:49:23,990
makes me more relaxed and and ted and

1105
00:49:28,599 --> 00:49:26,720
deal with the stress better that's

1106
00:49:31,150 --> 00:49:28,609
that's cool that's that's good because

1107
00:49:36,370 --> 00:49:31,160
it's now having an impact on my daily

1108
00:49:38,349 --> 00:49:36,380
life so so i think that um that your

1109
00:49:42,030 --> 00:49:38,359
point here about bringing us down to

1110
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:42,040
earth are great let me ask you

1111
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:45,170
where do you in all the people you've

1112
00:49:49,540 --> 00:49:47,690
spoken to where do you think this is

1113
00:49:51,430 --> 00:49:49,550
heading what do you think the future is

1114
00:49:53,130 --> 00:49:51,440
going to bring us you think we're always

1115
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:53,140
going to have this dichotomy between

1116
00:49:59,950 --> 00:49:57,050
between the the atheistic scientists and

1117
00:50:03,880 --> 00:49:59,960
the religion do you see any anything of

1118
00:50:05,500 --> 00:50:03,890
that ever changing well I mean that's a

1119
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:05,510
tough one and I think we spent a good

1120
00:50:12,599 --> 00:50:08,930
part of this our kind of discussing that

1121
00:50:16,180 --> 00:50:12,609
and I don't think we we know for sure

1122
00:50:17,620 --> 00:50:16,190
maybe I'd turn it back to the last five

1123
00:50:19,780 --> 00:50:17,630
minutes that we're just talking about

1124
00:50:21,220 --> 00:50:19,790
and I'd add this part to it the other

1125
00:50:23,319 --> 00:50:21,230
thing that I think sometimes turns

1126
00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:23,329
people off is when we talk about

1127
00:50:32,950 --> 00:50:28,250
morality morality has been so mixed up

1128
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:32,960
with religion in kind of a not-so-good

1129
00:50:38,079 --> 00:50:34,970
way you know for all the great things

1130
00:50:41,530 --> 00:50:38,089
that religion can mean two people and

1131
00:50:43,390 --> 00:50:41,540
can give people a sense of meaning in

1132
00:50:45,460 --> 00:50:43,400
their life in a sense of morality and

1133
00:50:47,740 --> 00:50:45,470
just a sense of goodness you know then

1134
00:50:51,579 --> 00:50:47,750
science can't come close to there's a

1135
00:50:53,470 --> 00:50:51,589
lot of ills in in religion too so I

1136
00:50:56,470 --> 00:50:53,480
think there's a lot of people out there

1137
00:50:59,140 --> 00:50:56,480
that are just trying to make good

1138
00:51:01,059 --> 00:50:59,150
decisions about how to run their life

1139
00:51:02,950 --> 00:51:01,069
yeah I mean it's really as simple as

1140
00:51:05,289 --> 00:51:02,960
that and I love what you said about

1141
00:51:07,089 --> 00:51:05,299
meditation I mean that's so real Philip

1142
00:51:09,430 --> 00:51:07,099
and that's what it is it's like hey I

1143
00:51:11,470 --> 00:51:09,440
tried it I'm not so sure I'm willing to

1144
00:51:14,079 --> 00:51:11,480
give it up I can't say it's changed my

1145
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:14,089
life but you know I'm going to keep

1146
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:15,650
trying because if it makes me a little

1147
00:51:19,030 --> 00:51:17,210
bit more relaxed a little bit more

1148
00:51:21,970 --> 00:51:19,040
compassionate then maybe that's a good

1149
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:21,980
thing terrific for me it's I've been a

1150
00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:24,530
long time yoga practitioner because I'm

1151
00:51:28,690 --> 00:51:26,720
not so great at meditation either it's

1152
00:51:30,609 --> 00:51:28,700
led me into a better meditation practice

1153
00:51:32,020 --> 00:51:30,619
but I'm still that's not it but I've

1154
00:51:35,530 --> 00:51:32,030
come to appreciate that that's not

1155
00:51:38,620 --> 00:51:35,540
important what is important is being

1156
00:51:42,390 --> 00:51:38,630
able to for me what's important is being

1157
00:51:46,569 --> 00:51:42,400
able to make decisions about my life

1158
00:51:48,970 --> 00:51:46,579
based on solid ground you know and

1159
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:48,980
that's what I think the work you're

1160
00:51:53,230 --> 00:51:50,690
doing and the work that I'm doing is

1161
00:51:55,420 --> 00:51:53,240
trying to do is say yeah you alluded to

1162
00:51:57,339 --> 00:51:55,430
near death experience science

1163
00:51:59,230 --> 00:51:57,349
I think that's critical anyone who

1164
00:52:01,299 --> 00:51:59,240
hasn't really dug into near-death

1165
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:01,309
experience science needs to do so and

1166
00:52:06,579 --> 00:52:04,010
you need to dig into it so you know it

1167
00:52:09,150 --> 00:52:06,589
so you know all the arguments against it

1168
00:52:12,250 --> 00:52:09,160
you know what all those arguments fail

1169
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:12,260
scientifically so you know why every

1170
00:52:16,630 --> 00:52:14,450
prominent near-death experience

1171
00:52:18,099 --> 00:52:16,640
researcher across the board and these

1172
00:52:20,140 --> 00:52:18,109
are not religious folks these are just

1173
00:52:22,450 --> 00:52:20,150
people like cardiologist PIM van Lommel

1174
00:52:23,980 --> 00:52:22,460
who cut people open and see him die on

1175
00:52:25,780 --> 00:52:23,990
the table and then see him come back to

1176
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:25,790
life and say hey Doc when my heart was

1177
00:52:30,339 --> 00:52:28,010
open you said this and that and they say

1178
00:52:31,870 --> 00:52:30,349
oh my god how did you know that so when

1179
00:52:33,790 --> 00:52:31,880
you know the science of near-death

1180
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:33,800
experience and you know there's a

1181
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:36,890
reality to it I think it helps you make

1182
00:52:41,950 --> 00:52:39,650
decisions about your life and say okay I

1183
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:41,960
need to bring that in now I need to

1184
00:52:46,359 --> 00:52:44,210
incorporate that into my belief system I

1185
00:52:49,660 --> 00:52:46,369
need to live that because that's a truth

1186
00:52:52,089 --> 00:52:49,670
that I've discovered and nailed down as

1187
00:52:53,980 --> 00:52:52,099
much as I can I've nailed it down

1188
00:52:57,250 --> 00:52:53,990
consciousness in some way I don't

1189
00:52:59,170 --> 00:52:57,260
understand survives bodily death now i

1190
00:53:01,450 --> 00:52:59,180
have to take action in my life and I

1191
00:53:04,270 --> 00:53:01,460
have to live that and that's I think

1192
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:04,280
that's I think powerful that I think is

1193
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:06,290
is powerful is to say I don't have to

1194
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:09,410
worry about the big picture like you can

1195
00:53:12,670 --> 00:53:11,210
listen I think with essence of what you

1196
00:53:15,970 --> 00:53:12,680
were saying you know I have to chunk

1197
00:53:17,859 --> 00:53:15,980
this down into meaningful bits of

1198
00:53:20,260 --> 00:53:17,869
information that i can use in my life

1199
00:53:22,599 --> 00:53:20,270
and I near death experiences one of

1200
00:53:25,750 --> 00:53:22,609
those yeah yeah and I think that what

1201
00:53:29,109 --> 00:53:25,760
what what you're saying about follow the

1202
00:53:30,819 --> 00:53:29,119
data is critical and I'm going to

1203
00:53:33,490 --> 00:53:30,829
emphasize something else that I said

1204
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:33,500
that goes to my you know my legal

1205
00:53:40,690 --> 00:53:36,770
training is that when you give a legal

1206
00:53:43,150 --> 00:53:40,700
argument in most appellate courts you

1207
00:53:45,819 --> 00:53:43,160
can't say anything unless you cite in

1208
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:45,829
authority you can't just the courts are

1209
00:53:51,039 --> 00:53:48,530
not interested in what you or I or any

1210
00:53:54,190 --> 00:53:51,049
other has this has to say what their

1211
00:53:56,559 --> 00:53:54,200
opinions are you have to have authority

1212
00:53:58,420 --> 00:53:56,569
and I think that there is a cross over

1213
00:54:02,410 --> 00:53:58,430
here to what we're talking about in the

1214
00:54:04,780 --> 00:54:02,420
scientific world and I think near-death

1215
00:54:06,900 --> 00:54:04,790
experiences and parapsychology of the

1216
00:54:08,710 --> 00:54:06,910
Dean Radin type are perfect examples

1217
00:54:12,010 --> 00:54:08,720
where we are

1218
00:54:15,070 --> 00:54:12,020
seeing phenomena with citations to

1219
00:54:17,830 --> 00:54:15,080
Authority with evidence that shows these

1220
00:54:20,530 --> 00:54:17,840
things are real and we need to wake up

1221
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:20,540
and appreciate the reality these things

1222
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:23,570
not so not just because maybe we were

1223
00:54:29,349 --> 00:54:25,970
wrong or science is wrong but to me it

1224
00:54:33,010 --> 00:54:29,359
opens up a broader world it opens up

1225
00:54:36,010 --> 00:54:33,020
vistas in our experience of the world it

1226
00:54:39,609 --> 00:54:36,020
makes it a richer place to live and I do

1227
00:54:42,849 --> 00:54:39,619
think that leads to to being kind ler

1228
00:54:46,030 --> 00:54:42,859
gentler as corny as that as that is I do

1229
00:54:50,410 --> 00:54:46,040
think that that this whole thing leads

1230
00:54:53,170 --> 00:54:50,420
in that direction and you know I this is

1231
00:54:55,089 --> 00:54:53,180
a mystery to me it's a mystery I said it

1232
00:54:56,770 --> 00:54:55,099
earlier I don't know what is going to

1233
00:54:58,839 --> 00:54:56,780
work and I don't know whether anything

1234
00:55:01,930 --> 00:54:58,849
is going to work but I think we have

1235
00:55:04,410 --> 00:55:01,940
this obligation to keep our minds open

1236
00:55:07,839 --> 00:55:04,420
as you say I like to follow the data and

1237
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:07,849
to keep banging down doors that are shut

1238
00:55:13,660 --> 00:55:09,890
in that should and that should be open

1239
00:55:15,190 --> 00:55:13,670
because because we to me and I think you

1240
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:15,200
know we only have one life to lead as

1241
00:55:18,540 --> 00:55:16,970
long as you know as far as we know there

1242
00:55:21,370 --> 00:55:18,550
might be an afterlife and that's great

1243
00:55:24,940 --> 00:55:21,380
but this is our challenge in our

1244
00:55:27,310 --> 00:55:24,950
opportunity now and therefore we I think

1245
00:55:31,690 --> 00:55:27,320
we need to continue questioning these

1246
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:31,700
these these unsupported of beliefs

1247
00:55:37,359 --> 00:55:33,890
whether it's religion or whether it's

1248
00:55:38,980 --> 00:55:37,369
science and see where things head so i

1249
00:55:42,190 --> 00:55:38,990
think i think you know it's amazing to

1250
00:55:44,349 --> 00:55:42,200
me that we come from this from different

1251
00:55:47,050 --> 00:55:44,359
directions and maybe I'm a little bit

1252
00:55:50,290 --> 00:55:47,060
more optimistic than you are but we tend

1253
00:55:55,630 --> 00:55:50,300
to be going in the same direction here I

1254
00:55:57,609 --> 00:55:55,640
mean your your book you know you say

1255
00:56:01,060 --> 00:55:57,619
that why science is wrong about almost

1256
00:56:04,359 --> 00:56:01,070
everything and what and you know that's

1257
00:56:05,950 --> 00:56:04,369
a pretty radical statement to say the

1258
00:56:09,099 --> 00:56:05,960
science is wrong about almost everything

1259
00:56:11,740 --> 00:56:09,109
what what led you to pick that title

1260
00:56:13,530 --> 00:56:11,750
well I'll tell you and then we'll wrap

1261
00:56:16,690 --> 00:56:13,540
it up because you just gave a great

1262
00:56:19,720 --> 00:56:16,700
summation counselor right there I

1263
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:19,730
thought you did a great job and I love

1264
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:21,890
when you tie it back to some of the

1265
00:56:25,100 --> 00:56:22,530
legal

1266
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:25,110
principles um because I think that has a

1267
00:56:30,590 --> 00:56:27,330
real weight to it and I think it's also

1268
00:56:33,260 --> 00:56:30,600
interesting to note of course that you

1269
00:56:35,810 --> 00:56:33,270
know when we talk about this materialism

1270
00:56:37,370 --> 00:56:35,820
and this I always talk about this dopey

1271
00:56:39,140 --> 00:56:37,380
scientific paradigm that you are a

1272
00:56:41,420 --> 00:56:39,150
biological robot in a meaningless

1273
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:41,430
universe which implies you have no free

1274
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:43,410
will you have no choice you have no

1275
00:56:47,450 --> 00:56:45,690
consciousness and it's interesting to

1276
00:56:49,910 --> 00:56:47,460
see how the legal profession is

1277
00:56:52,100 --> 00:56:49,920
completely ignored that nonsense I mean

1278
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:52,110
we wouldn't have a legal system if we

1279
00:56:57,050 --> 00:56:54,450
really believe that if we believe that

1280
00:56:59,330 --> 00:56:57,060
there was no free will if we believe

1281
00:57:01,190 --> 00:56:59,340
there was no choice to believe that

1282
00:57:03,470 --> 00:57:01,200
people didn't have the ability to make

1283
00:57:05,270 --> 00:57:03,480
conscious decisions you know it's just

1284
00:57:08,510 --> 00:57:05,280
another absurdity right it's an

1285
00:57:10,730 --> 00:57:08,520
absurdity that we have this science that

1286
00:57:12,740 --> 00:57:10,740
is built on that so it can kind of

1287
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:12,750
measure things in it's dorky little way

1288
00:57:16,850 --> 00:57:14,850
and then the rest of us get on with life

1289
00:57:18,590 --> 00:57:16,860
and say well of course that's I

1290
00:57:20,870 --> 00:57:18,600
mean of course we know that we have

1291
00:57:23,630 --> 00:57:20,880
choice of course we have free will of

1292
00:57:26,930 --> 00:57:23,640
course we have that feeling of love and

1293
00:57:29,300 --> 00:57:26,940
compassion towards our family and

1294
00:57:31,460 --> 00:57:29,310
towards our children we know that you

1295
00:57:33,620 --> 00:57:31,470
know you mentioned Tim freak I thought

1296
00:57:35,450 --> 00:57:33,630
he liked interviewed and he has a

1297
00:57:39,740 --> 00:57:35,460
wonderful thing and he says you know

1298
00:57:42,500 --> 00:57:39,750
science is stuck in its just thinking so

1299
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:42,510
when they you hear the birds in the

1300
00:57:48,140 --> 00:57:45,210
morning and it just raises your heart

1301
00:57:50,150 --> 00:57:48,150
and lifts you up and science scientists

1302
00:57:52,490 --> 00:57:50,160
comes along goes oh that's just a bird's

1303
00:57:55,850 --> 00:57:52,500
marking their territory and seek inmates

1304
00:57:58,730 --> 00:57:55,860
yes well it might be that but it's not

1305
00:58:01,880 --> 00:57:58,740
just that you know you look into your

1306
00:58:04,010 --> 00:58:01,890
newborn child's eyes and you get like

1307
00:58:06,020 --> 00:58:04,020
still many parents every parent

1308
00:58:08,540 --> 00:58:06,030
throughout time as at this instant

1309
00:58:09,980 --> 00:58:08,550
connection that's indescribable love

1310
00:58:12,230 --> 00:58:09,990
where you feel like a piece of your

1311
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:12,240
heart has been lifted out of you and put

1312
00:58:16,460 --> 00:58:14,370
into this other person and you have this

1313
00:58:18,950 --> 00:58:16,470
feeling and the scientist comes along

1314
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:18,960
goes well that's just the nurturing

1315
00:58:24,260 --> 00:58:21,330
instinct it has been biologically bread

1316
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:24,270
and you get it there might be some of

1317
00:58:29,420 --> 00:58:27,210
that but it's not just that yeah I know

1318
00:58:31,910 --> 00:58:29,430
that's crap you know but we've been

1319
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:31,920
battered into you know we don't let our

1320
00:58:35,330 --> 00:58:34,050
kids go to school and raise their hand

1321
00:58:36,150 --> 00:58:35,340
and say hey wait a minute that's a bunch

1322
00:58:38,010 --> 00:58:36,160
of crap everyone

1323
00:58:39,779 --> 00:58:38,020
knows that we tell them like you were

1324
00:58:42,150 --> 00:58:39,789
saying just go along get a good grade on

1325
00:58:44,190 --> 00:58:42,160
the test you know listen to what they

1326
00:58:48,809 --> 00:58:44,200
have to say and you know all the rest of

1327
00:58:52,950 --> 00:58:48,819
that so you know as we wrap things up I

1328
00:58:55,460 --> 00:58:52,960
guess that's what I was pulling for with

1329
00:58:57,660 --> 00:58:55,470
that book title that I stand behind

1330
00:58:59,819 --> 00:58:57,670
because you know the book would it

1331
00:59:01,650 --> 00:58:59,829
really relates to is why science is

1332
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:01,660
wrong about almost everything here's the

1333
00:59:05,730 --> 00:59:03,490
short answer because science is wrong

1334
00:59:08,130 --> 00:59:05,740
about consciousness and if they're wrong

1335
00:59:10,140 --> 00:59:08,140
about consciousness the wrong about

1336
00:59:13,710 --> 00:59:10,150
almost everything because consciousness

1337
00:59:16,770 --> 00:59:13,720
is your minute by minute experience of

1338
00:59:19,289 --> 00:59:16,780
life it's who you think you are it's

1339
00:59:21,900 --> 00:59:19,299
that voice inside your head and if you

1340
00:59:24,900 --> 00:59:21,910
get that wrong it doesn't matter how

1341
00:59:28,740 --> 00:59:24,910
good you are at lasers and I phones and

1342
00:59:32,099 --> 00:59:28,750
GPS systems all that small stuff you've

1343
00:59:34,380 --> 00:59:32,109
missed the big stuff yeah and I think

1344
00:59:38,490 --> 00:59:34,390
that you do a really good job of

1345
00:59:41,819 --> 00:59:38,500
focusing your book why science is wrong

1346
00:59:45,289 --> 00:59:41,829
about almost everything on on that point

1347
00:59:48,900 --> 00:59:45,299
and you know it's like you were saying

1348
00:59:51,930 --> 00:59:48,910
talking to people with credentials with

1349
00:59:55,079 --> 00:59:51,940
our particulate they've researched it

1350
00:59:58,650 --> 00:59:55,089
one-on-one like you do like I do it's

1351
01:00:01,230 --> 00:59:58,660
really you know it's changed me it's

1352
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:01,240
it's it made me realize that I'm not the

1353
01:00:06,660 --> 01:00:03,970
only one sort of with with these

1354
01:00:10,819 --> 01:00:06,670
questions in my head and I'm also really

1355
01:00:14,789 --> 01:00:10,829
encouraged Alex that so many credible

1356
01:00:18,089 --> 01:00:14,799
intelligent people are going down this

1357
01:00:20,490 --> 01:00:18,099
road it's not it's not just sort of the

1358
01:00:24,539 --> 01:00:20,500
hippies from the 1960s we are having

1359
01:00:27,359 --> 01:00:24,549
people opening up their minds to to this

1360
01:00:29,190 --> 01:00:27,369
field and I for I'm very great point

1361
01:00:31,799 --> 01:00:29,200
that's a great big way I'm very

1362
01:00:35,609 --> 01:00:31,809
encouraged in the in the in the medical

1363
01:00:38,099 --> 01:00:35,619
side of things of energy healing I'm the

1364
01:00:40,950 --> 01:00:38,109
more I talk you know the more I talk to

1365
01:00:44,460 --> 01:00:40,960
folks in the medical side it could be

1366
01:00:47,190 --> 01:00:44,470
someday that will be sort of the first

1367
01:00:49,589 --> 01:00:47,200
treatment you'll get before they start

1368
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:49,599
cutting things open you know before they

1369
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:50,050
start

1370
01:00:56,820 --> 01:00:53,890
radiating the the the cancer cells or

1371
01:01:00,840 --> 01:00:56,830
something I mean it sounds sort of maybe

1372
01:01:03,990 --> 01:01:00,850
science fiction right now but I think

1373
01:01:05,670 --> 01:01:04,000
we're heading in that direction so you

1374
01:01:10,050 --> 01:01:05,680
know you're right we've we've come to

1375
01:01:12,510 --> 01:01:10,060
the end and I want to thank you for

1376
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:12,520
getting this started and I want to thank

1377
01:01:17,130 --> 01:01:14,490
you for your your inquisitive

1378
01:01:21,420 --> 01:01:17,140
questioning I think that you do a

1379
01:01:24,900 --> 01:01:21,430
service with your show and I'm happy

1380
01:01:28,110 --> 01:01:24,910
that I'm not the only one out there sort

1381
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:28,120
of beating this drum and you know we

1382
01:01:33,510 --> 01:01:30,010
could we should do this more often and

1383
01:01:35,610 --> 01:01:33,520
check up on each other every Philip it's

1384
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:35,620
been it's been great and I do you know

1385
01:01:41,580 --> 01:01:37,690
when one of my listeners recommended

1386
01:01:44,670 --> 01:01:41,590
your book to me and I I just glanced at

1387
01:01:48,810 --> 01:01:44,680
and go oh my here's a here's a kindred

1388
01:01:50,670 --> 01:01:48,820
spirit here's a fellow Chicagoland kind

1389
01:01:52,950 --> 01:01:50,680
of person just like I grew up in the

1390
01:01:55,530 --> 01:01:52,960
suburb the western suburbs of Chicago in

1391
01:01:57,810 --> 01:01:55,540
lagrange but here's a guy who's kind of

1392
01:02:00,630 --> 01:01:57,820
followed along finally found some of the

1393
01:02:02,940 --> 01:02:00,640
same cookie crumbs on the trail and has

1394
01:02:05,910 --> 01:02:02,950
decided to follow him just like I did so

1395
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:05,920
it's been great and yeah I had to push

1396
01:02:10,770 --> 01:02:07,450
you a little bitter it would've been a

1397
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:10,780
skeptic of dialogue yeah yeah well you

1398
01:02:17,310 --> 01:02:14,010
know I i know i think the topic of

1399
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:17,320
skepticism itself is such a rich topic

1400
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:21,490
and i did a blog recently on 360 degrees

1401
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:24,250
i read that it's great skepticism you

1402
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:28,210
know we need to be you know 360 degrees

1403
01:02:32,730 --> 01:02:30,250
skeptical not just get to go about

1404
01:02:34,710 --> 01:02:32,740
things we don't believe in right the

1405
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:34,720
whole self examination and you know

1406
01:02:38,460 --> 01:02:36,610
there's a lot there and and I and

1407
01:02:40,350 --> 01:02:38,470
frankly I think that science needs to

1408
01:02:43,170 --> 01:02:40,360
turn back in itself and be skeptical of

1409
01:02:44,550 --> 01:02:43,180
some of its own theories although I do

1410
01:02:47,460 --> 01:02:44,560
have faith that science is a

1411
01:02:50,010 --> 01:02:47,470
self-correcting field and so you know

1412
01:02:52,970 --> 01:02:50,020
I'm a scientist at heart maybe like you

1413
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:52,980
are as well and I am optimistic about

1414
01:02:58,530 --> 01:02:56,530
about the the future but like I'm not

1415
01:03:01,110 --> 01:02:58,540
going to make any predictions on when

1416
01:03:04,049 --> 01:03:01,120
when something's going to happen I sort

1417
01:03:06,900 --> 01:03:04,059
of like your approach this to focus on

1418
01:03:09,449 --> 01:03:06,910
numero uno change yourself do the

1419
01:03:12,299 --> 01:03:09,459
possible and you know you never know

1420
01:03:14,009 --> 01:03:12,309
what might happen exactly otherwise I

1421
01:03:16,949 --> 01:03:14,019
just have said one more time that I love

1422
01:03:20,849 --> 01:03:16,959
the way you coined that term 360 degrees

1423
01:03:23,370 --> 01:03:20,859
skepticism and hafta have to use that so

1424
01:03:26,099 --> 01:03:23,380
it's it's been great having you on again

1425
01:03:28,549 --> 01:03:26,109
our guest has been Phillip Camela his

1426
01:03:33,709 --> 01:03:28,559
book is the collapse of materialism

1427
01:03:35,279 --> 01:03:33,719
visions of science dreams of God and the

1428
01:03:36,420 --> 01:03:35,289
podcasts that you're really going to

1429
01:03:39,329 --> 01:03:36,430
want to check out there's some great

1430
01:03:41,789 --> 01:03:39,339
guests on there our conversations beyond

1431
01:03:44,339 --> 01:03:41,799
science and religion Phillip it's been

1432
01:03:47,099 --> 01:03:44,349
great spending this hour with you thanks

1433
01:03:49,559 --> 01:03:47,109
again so much and Alex I thank you very

1434
01:03:51,719 --> 01:03:49,569
much in Alex's book is why science is

1435
01:03:54,479 --> 01:03:51,729
wrong about almost everything and of

1436
01:03:56,420 --> 01:03:54,489
course his pot his own podcast is

1437
01:03:59,160 --> 01:03:56,430
skeptical science at the tipping point

1438
01:04:00,779 --> 01:03:59,170
this is Phillip Camela conversations

1439
01:04:02,429 --> 01:04:00,789
beyond science religion thank you very

1440
01:04:07,859 --> 01:04:02,439
much listening and alex has been great

1441
01:04:09,419 --> 01:04:07,869
talking to you likewise thanks again to

1442
01:04:11,519 --> 01:04:09,429
Phillip Camela for joining me today on

1443
01:04:13,859 --> 01:04:11,529
skeptic oh I cuz I'd have one question

1444
01:04:16,620 --> 01:04:13,869
to tee up from this interview and it has

1445
01:04:18,359 --> 01:04:16,630
to do with the lead in peace there do

1446
01:04:20,459 --> 01:04:18,369
you think the scientific data for

1447
01:04:22,729 --> 01:04:20,469
near-death experience and extended

1448
01:04:24,449 --> 01:04:22,739
consciousness in general is

1449
01:04:26,189 --> 01:04:24,459
transformational I said it's

1450
01:04:27,870 --> 01:04:26,199
transformational to me I think the

1451
01:04:30,569 --> 01:04:27,880
evidence is so overwhelming that it kind

1452
01:04:33,029 --> 01:04:30,579
of demands that I re-examine my

1453
01:04:35,279 --> 01:04:33,039
worldview reexamine and incorporate that

1454
01:04:37,499 --> 01:04:35,289
into my life how does that work for you

1455
01:04:39,900 --> 01:04:37,509
do you see it as such do you see the

1456
01:04:42,299 --> 01:04:39,910
data as something that moves you or

1457
01:04:43,650 --> 01:04:42,309
maybe you say the data isn't there yet

1458
01:04:45,630 --> 01:04:43,660
or maybe you're one of these people say

1459
01:04:47,669 --> 01:04:45,640
you know the data alone could never move

1460
01:04:49,620 --> 01:04:47,679
me it had to be some kind of personal

1461
01:04:51,719 --> 01:04:49,630
experience I have okay so I guess the

1462
01:04:53,549 --> 01:04:51,729
question this time around takes us a

1463
01:04:55,709 --> 01:04:53,559
little bit out of the intellectual part

1464
01:04:58,410 --> 01:04:55,719
and down to the personal experience part

1465
01:05:02,729 --> 01:04:58,420
and that is what is transformational for

1466
01:05:05,910 --> 01:05:02,739
you and it can information alone be

1467
01:05:07,890 --> 01:05:05,920
transformational so the place to fire

1468
01:05:12,989 --> 01:05:07,900
back and answer to that is through the

1469
01:05:15,539 --> 01:05:12,999
skeptic Oh website at ske pti KO kaam

1470
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:15,549
from there i always recommend you go

1471
01:05:19,570 --> 01:05:17,210
over to the forum

1472
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:19,580
where there's always someone hanging out

1473
01:05:24,010 --> 01:05:22,010
and offering up an opinion of one sword

1474
01:05:25,780 --> 01:05:24,020
in the other and you can link right

1475
01:05:27,910 --> 01:05:25,790
through there through the skeptical

1476
01:05:30,670 --> 01:05:27,920
website or you can go to skeptic Oh dash

1477
01:05:32,500 --> 01:05:30,680
forum and get there directly you can

1478
01:05:34,870 --> 01:05:32,510
also connect with me on Facebook send me

1479
01:05:37,660 --> 01:05:34,880
an email all the old-fashioned ways of

1480
01:05:39,250 --> 01:05:37,670
doing it still work as well as always I

1481
01:05:42,820 --> 01:05:39,260
have a number of shows coming up I've

1482
01:05:44,710 --> 01:05:42,830
put this show out on a one-week interval

1483
01:05:47,350 --> 01:05:44,720
rather than my usual two-week intervals

1484
01:05:48,940 --> 01:05:47,360
but since I didn't do a transcript on

1485
01:05:51,460 --> 01:05:48,950
this one it isn't going to keep me from

1486
01:05:54,010 --> 01:05:51,470
getting another one out to you next week

1487
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:54,020
and I may even have another one the week

1488
01:05:58,060 --> 01:05:55,610
after that I got to get some of these

1489
01:06:00,670 --> 01:05:58,070
cleared up that I've been back logging

1490
01:06:03,910 --> 01:06:00,680
and I apologize to my guests for my

1491
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:03,920
tardiness in publishing these so I hope

1492
01:06:06,850 --> 01:06:05,210
to get that more up to date because I

1493
01:06:09,490 --> 01:06:06,860
have a lot more interviews coming down

1494
01:06:11,050 --> 01:06:09,500
the pipe as well so much going on look

1495
01:06:13,270 --> 01:06:11,060
it looks like it's going to be a busy

1496
01:06:16,090 --> 01:06:13,280
summer here at skeptic oh and I hope